December 4, 2014
Seth Godin —
The Art of Noticing, and Then Creating

We live in a world that is recreating itself one life and one digital connection at a time. On this landscape for which there are no maps, Seth Godin is a singular thought leader and innovator in what he describes as our post-industrial "connection economy." Rather than merely tolerate change, he says, we are all called now to rise to it. We are invited and stretched in whatever we do to be artists — to create in ways that matter to other people.

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is an internet thought leader and entrepreneur, and founder of several companies including He’s the author of many books, including Tribes, The Icarus Deception, and most recently, What to Do When It's Your Turn.

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Ya'll are seriously two of my favorite people.

- John

This is the Fourth Time I Review Seth and Krista...Love Every Moment of Their Discussion. Learning more each Visit..Thank you For Bringing Fore Such Great Shows And Guests..ART

Seth is right, I had not heard of him before nor would I have recognized him BUT I do/will now. Another great show that is so insightful , stretching , and profound . Thanks so much for your radio show and podcast.

Krista, this is probably the best interview I have ever heard with Seth, and I have listened to a lot!

Thanks for taking the time to really understand the person you are speaking to and the significance of their 'art' so that we can be inspired to do ours.

Thanks Seth as always for sharing what you notice with us.

appreciate your work.

So... this is what I'm saving up to listen on the train home tonight in snowy UK -- thanks! This is my collection of favourite Seth posts links...

I loved, loved, loved this broadcast. I highly recommend listening to both the edited and unedited versions. I've been exploring both the spiritual and digital "tribes" online and have been influenced by both in writing my memoir. Now two of my very favorites from previously distinct worlds are talking to each other, "tenderly," as Seth said. What a way to jump start my day and my revision process! Thank you.

The life work of both Krista and Seth remind us that true insight leading to deeper understanding and creativity cannot be reduced to sound bites. Thank you for holding your ground.

Thank you Krista and Seth for this interview and discussion. I found it encouraging and enlightening. Gives me hope to continue my work with value particularly when I've felt overwhelmed at times like a small fish in a big pond.

Thoughtful and profound work in today's saturated world of noise is to be sought, treasured and shared without hesitation. Kristen and Seth are true pillars that inspire us to stretch our comfort zones. To hear them together was incredible and a privilege. Thank you both and continued good health to continue.

So appreciative of the On Being tribe!

I listened to the edited interview with Seth Godin, then immediately listened to the unedited version. Then started taking notes, then started flowing with ideas faster than I could write. I think my world view has shifted. Thank you both!

Great context Seth. What does it mean for capitalism?
Isn't the whole labor model shot?
Doesn't this affect every standard economic model, all of which are labor based?

His statements about the past are full of catchphrases -- but his statements are based on his own rage to make everyone else see the world through his glasses. He has coopted the demeanor and jargon of a forceful Business-school professor with a bunch of catchphrases -- except with a psychotically angry edge to his voice. Ok, he made a lot of money. He is playing the role of genius to assuage some problem in his personality, and he made a lot of money. Krista Tippett your shows are always so thoughtful; why are you even bothering with this self-help smackdown guy?


Brilliant...intuitively true.
Faith courage action
Connections not Things
Do somwthing that matters with your Life.
Take a risk.

The idea that today's population are simply masses afraid of the uncertainty of the future given the change from an industrial economy to a technology economy has no basis in fact and is, frankly, insulting. There is no doubt that the freedom for such things as creativity and art has expanded as has the ability to reach inside all cultures. This is a good thing. That is not to what Krista seems to be guiding us in this 'fear of change' dialog.

People across the Western world are fearful because of the loss of democracy and the turn of free and democratic institutions into autocratic and criminal ones. We watch as tens of trillions of dollars in public wealth is moved from the lower/middle classes to the top all by corporate fraud with a complete suspension of Rule of Law in Western nations. Security is the growth industry as jobs in national security, Homeland security, building security, the military and police are the predominate job markets now. This is not a good thing, it is bad. We watch as diversified and competitive markets are drying and fixed by the ownership of all business activity in America by a handful of mega-corporations. This is not evolution and it is not something to relax and is something for which to be fearful and to revolt.

Even as I acknowledge the benefits of internet as regards culture and creativity the predominate issue for all people is the Big Brother nature of the web and the fact that all of it is owned by people who can now simply legislate the ability to have it all shut down.....remember, all of our public modes of communication are being dismantled so communication that is centralized like this is easily cut off as we saw with the uprisings last Spring. The US quickly passed laws allowing this complete shutdown as it made domestic detention for 'terrorism' legal as well.

This is of course not evolution it is devolution. We are seeing a wealth inequity equal to the Renaissance and the same social structuring taking place.....goodbye Enlightment these leaders say as democracy disappears and poverty increases all by way of massive criminal activity. These are the morals, ethics, and values the people see today and are never spoken of on Krista's program as she works to obscure the seriousness of the times!!

Kudos Cindy. You're the only one so far who isn't blind to the concentration of power the new technologies are making possible. The cheerleading by libertarian and artistic types for the supposed freedom technology, especially the internet, makes possible is incredibly naive.

Cindy, you are so right. As I listen and watch the news I recall someone saying that by giving up your freedom in favour of security, in the end, you have neither.
Unbelievable that so many cannot see the road ahead that destroys the democracy and freedom that we think we have by the powerful and corruptible.

This program finally taught me what "tribalism" means. Godin used the example of the group or tribe at a hypothetical reading by Mark Twain....imagine a reing by Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and Wayne LaPierre and th tribe it would attract, on one hand, and a reading by Tina Fey, John Stewart, and Garrison Keillor on the other. This country is one tribal place, isn't it, and I wish programs like this one the greatest luck in getting the light to the dark corners where it's needed.

loved the talk. who i am is best said at
we are talking about individuation and finding micro tribes but that is opposite negotiation with those who are not like us. that is where politics - even in its old current form - has to do. in democracy those who disagree intensely almost violently - have to come face to face. egypt social media awakening showed that the social media side thought politics was street mobs but they lacked any knowledge or appreciation of the tough slog called governance and advocacy. it's detailed, hard, and thankless.

What do you mean The Beverly Hillbillies had less influence than Star Trek? Have you noticed our politicians lately?

Isn't true that what matters to us, architects, lawyers, doctors and banker follow Seth's format.

Thank you for such an inspiring, soulful, intelligent, wonderful program! It is a treasure!

Christa, I always enjoy and am enlightened by On Being. Congratulations to you and all involved in producing and participating in the programs.

Regarding today's topic, I would like to note that there is relevant wisdom in Dorothy Sayer's 1941 book, The Mind of the Maker (see: In it she explicates the Christian trinity by illuminating the relationship of creator, work, and meaning and characterizing the nature of man, "created in the image of God" as being reflected in artistic imagination. As she argues, this triune nature is found not only in the acts of artists, but also in those of inventors, engineers, craftsmen, and--may I add, too--teachers, students, and parents.

BTW, I propose that a secular trinity derived from Sayer's insights may well provide a more viable paradigm for modern scientific thinking than the failed materialist/reductionist paradigm dominating orthodox science. [I prefer to think of this secular, paradigmatic trinity in terms of Idea, Image, and Import, rather than in Sayer's terms--I like alliteration, too.]. This secular trinity provides the basis of a conceptual framework for a worldview which better accommodates the accumulating scientific and spiritual thought and evidence for Mind/Consciousness and Meaning/Spirit/Effect, most of which orthodox science, ignores, dismisses, denies, rejects.

- Tom

I thank you for writing this. It is great to know that there are some remnants amongst us. Men have relied on scientific thinking and forgot God and all His works. Keep it up friend. My email is Keep in touch. Washington.

Mr. Godin's ideas put form to my long-felt belief that a business doesn't need to define success by adding employees or making a steep profit margin or building aggressively. I run a small business because I like to practice landscape architecture. I like to meet people and help them live their lives more fully and abundantly. I don't run a small business to make a million dollars, or to grow indefinitely. I founded my company because I was unemployed in the Great Recession of 2008. Since that time, I've ended up providing work and connections for other professionals who found themselves in transition. I feel very strongly that this is a main mission of my company, along with providing a creative outlet for myself, earning a little money, and supporting the design and construction of human environments that help people enjoy their lives. Thanks for this great interview - I've found out that I'm part of a tribe that believes in a more complex business model. What fun!

Elise, you put this excellently and I very much identify with the "complex" business model you alluded to.

I just joined this community/app with a lot of people who think think like this. It'd be great to hear your voice if you're open to it.

I love Seth's ideas - this is just NO for now then learn from it. That this evolutionary change is happening from the ground up. We are all artists and we have to brave enough to create and present our creations to our community and value our own artistry. Another winner Krista. I feel like you are one of my BFF s!

This interview is on its way to becoming a part of the curriculum for my university students in Interpersonal Comm. at Webster University. Sooooo appreciative of On Being and Seth Godin who appears in my inbox every morning!

You made an otherwise long drive from Mobile to Jackson pleasurable and memorable.

The coming together of two of my favorite online inspirations. (People doing work that inspires my own living and working).Thank you Krista & Seth for this interview.

Thank you, Seth, for what will be an addition to the curriculum in my Interpersonal Comm class at Webster U. in ST. Louis.
You and I have met.... face to face.....(-:]

Krista, you managed with your special way of approaching people and issues to get Seth to talk about his work in a much more interesting and profound way I have ever heard before. I really learnt much more from him after listening to your interviews than I have from listening to many of his presentations online!
Thanks Seth for taking this journey with Krista.

Listening to this interview this Sunday made my day. My husband who was sitting next me said "you've found your professional soul mate!"

Seth's apologia for the newest incarnation of "creative destruction" is monstrous: celebratory of the centralization of power, deeply insulting to and dismissive of the 99+% who are not, and cannot possibly be, part of the top-level creative class that is benefiting from the new economic order, and incredibly ignorant of what makes for human flourishing (for all, not just the powerful and their pet geniuses). Go meet some poor people--better yet, some stupid or deeply damaged people--and try to sell your bucket of swill to them. You'll see it for the Machiavellian BS that it is.

Thank you. Checking it now.

Thomas Moore writes in "Care of the Soul":

"Narcissus lays his head on the grass by the pool, and then he quietly disappears into the underworld, where he continues to gaze at the image in the waters of the river Styx. Our images, especially those that appear in life and play important roles in episodes of transformation, stay with us forever. Once we have entertained an image, it is always potentially present to our gaze. You visit the Uffizi Gallery and see Botticelli's "Primavera," and then for a lifetime you dream of it or you talk about it frequently as a measure of beauty. Unexpectedly it presents itself in a moment of thought or in a discussion, reminding you of its eternal presence. This fragment of the myth suggests that we might continually make soul out of our narcissism by preserving and tending to the images that have come to us throughout our lives. This is the basis of art therapy or journal-keeping: making a home for certain images that have been transforming. Certain photographs or old letters might be related to the pool of water. Culturally, of course, we are constantly invited into the depths of ourselves by the plays, paintings, sculptures, and buildings of past centuries. Art can be a cure for narcissism. The words "curator" and "cure" are essentially the same. By being the curator of our images, we care for our souls."

I post pictures of beautiful pools on the cover of my facebook page to remind me of this quote. After hearing this interview, I'm holding it in my heart right next to this quote and basking in the radiance. It's a keeper!

I never knew I could fall in love with a conversation. Inspirational and empowering, I am grateful that it is digitally preserved. Thank you!!!

Seth Godin, such a weirdo! I love you Seth, for being just who you are - straight, no chaser! :) I have been a silent follower of yours for a few years. I quote you frequently. i was introduced to you through George Siemens "Connectivism'. Each time I listen to you or read something that you wrote I learn so much. You always leave me with something to think about and apply to my life and my work. Thank you for being free enough to share!

Wonderful. WONDERFUL!

The part at the end, where both Krista and Seth are choked up. Well, that does it for me. Great job as always.

"Today I was out looking for something to be proud of..."

I thought you might like to see this photo and writing the interview inspired in my friend Kendall.

so wonderful, excellent listen, so enriching. one part i especially appreciated was the "can't please everyone", how Seth admitted to being "victum" to negative reveiw - that one out of 100 we fall into darkness over. jeez, but to stay vulnerable and to not pay attention to such critism. thank you Krista!

very good opinion very much liked this set up and discussion i can now understand very well

This was my first exposure to Seth and his philosophy. We share many beliefs. My organization has for 20 years attempted to build our community back from a rust belt powehouse of the 50's, through the crumbling industrial economy, to a renaissance ignitied by a rediscovery of the arts. The goal is a culturally vibrant community with a populace formed of peaceful, productive tribes that contribute their own form of art toward a better community. Thankyou for your leadership, Seth, and thank you Krista,
for this interview.

Touch Wood calmed me the second it started. Three cheers. Well done.

Had planned to share this with some of my tribe even before Krista asked us to:). Thank you both.


I have a confession. I did not completely finish reading The Icarus Deception: How High Will You Fly?. During the entire process of reading your book up to page 210, I realize that You wanted me to be brave and go create My art now. There was a sense of urgency. I have a feeling that is alright with you because I wanted to start on and in my art too. Reading your book along with others have helped me give me permission to create change. So I am doing just that. I am taking baby steps. The first step I have taken is to leave the town I have grew up for nearly 20 years to find my art and do my art. I am always noticing but afraid to give voice to what I see. Today, I am beginning the long, hard journey of self-actualizing creation. Here is an example of my art: I started it over a year ago and neglected it because my grassroots campaigned failed, but now I am ready to enhance it and make it into art. Seth, I am brave, but am I scared, but I am brave. The times demand my bravery and I will begin by starting now.

I loved this talk. The Art of Noticing is in "my own language." The idea that we all have gifts to give, and that we are essentially all artists is just the concept, which offers potential for us to help the world become a better place.
This talk inspired me.
Thank you!

I could not pass up this interview with Seth Godin. I'm a big fan of his.

I wrote down eight key points of this interview that struck a chord within me, but I will discuss just a couple of them.

The first was when Seth said,

"And so the challenge of our future is to say, are we going to connect and amplify positive tribes that want to make things better for all of us? Or are we going to degrade to warring tribes that are willing to bring other groups down just so they can get ahead?"

This really made me rethink how I go about purchasing products, actually. Sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the simple purchase, but really with every purchase, I'm supporting an idea. I want to support the positive tribes and not the bully tribes.

The second point was when Seth said,

"You will never have better ratings than the Jersey Shore. But that's not what the purpose is. It's not what the point is. It's not why we do our work. What works is does it matter? And is it possible to make a living doing something that matters? And the answer is, yes. Is it possible to make the maximum amount of money? Probably not. But that's playing by a different set of rules."

This was very important to me because sometimes I think too much about fame. Getting an idea that everyone likes. Being a person everyone likes. Winning an award or being the best at something. Seth says it's not about the ratings. I think that kind of thought process will really just drag me down in the end and smother my true potential. There is something I can offer that's bigger than ratings. Something that impacts individuals, which spreads little by little to other individuals. Something that matters.

"Something genuine that connects, instead of something fake that entertains."

He nailed it. I listened to this interview three times in the Czech Republic as I was there on tour with a one-man show about WW II. Godin's description of the community that grew around Twain's tours is exactly what was happening on the tour.

Inspiring! More Spock, less Jed Clampett.

I like your writing Seth, do you do a mailout of the blogs like Bob?

Love this interview.

I have been a huge fan of Krista and Seth. I appreciate their generosity, openness, and creative approach to being. I love Seth's approach to marketing with I live by.

Henry Pierre

thanks for this great interview. I will be following this channel now, and I always love hearing what Seth has to say.

Reading Seth Godin's blog everday I now ahs found you canI be a part of your trible


What a great picture of Seth, Bill Wadman. Fantastic interview Krista. We are all called to rise to the change created by this "connection economy" - truth.

Great conversation! I need to listen to it again, but wanted to comment on one item that stuck with me. Krista asked a really good question, "how do you advise people to be discerning - how to be wise"? Seth responded that the only way to get that discernment is to "practice", which is really great advice. But would like to share another really good, well thought out answer - from Andy Stanley, whom I admire greatly - here is a link to a web page that includes both video and audio:

Gosh, after all the things I may have screwed up as a mother, maybe I did OK. I raised two free-range children.

I love the definition of "mindfulness" from Ellen Langer at Harvard. It's the "art of noticing new things." How many of us are intentional about this? I know I'm not. Yeah, I take too many things for granted, including those closest to me.

But, I'm endeavoring to do that in a way that's challenging my focus. It's causing me to pause.

Mark de Roo

Seth Godin invites us out to play in a world with few rules and fewer playbooks. I have been reading him for awhile and yet staying safe in my corporate life - I have been released now to explore and thank Seth for encouraging me to make a ruckus

I knew your mother Lenore through our association with museum shops. So no reflections on your writings yet but just want you to know I remember her with great affection.

Life is a what we make of it. We have been giving the ability to live life to the fullest and enjoy, have fun, be happy all the time. Why we have learned the contrary and apply any excuses instead. Is to some extent in the water supply and we need to find the way to change this.

I love this

"Thought leader" -- Sounds like something out of 1984.

Maybe capitalism can be saved

I have never heard of Seth Godin.... and W.O.W. did I ever n.e.e.d. to hear this and learn about him and who he is and what he is about! Listening to him [and Krista's incredible questions-as always]is building totally n.e.w. neural pathways in my brain that will ease my transition "out of" my "programed" up-bringing and greatly help me move forward not only in my life but in the world as well.

Great show! I was left with this odd feeling that Seth had somehow sneaked into one of our business plan meetings. It was never a strategy for "getting customers." We are new and unique for our industry and initially only heard very negative comments from veterans of the field. We literally had people laugh in our faces. We believe in our product and methods. We didn't just want the sale, we want people to have fantastic experiences. We are honestly having the time of our lives living the dream and making friends along the way. Very inspiring to know that we are on the right track.

I loved this quote: We are discovering that most people who are making an impact are doing so despite what they learned in school, not BECAUSE of what they learned in school. This is why I'm driven to do things differently as a teacher.

When you were talking about working together it reminded me of class exercises at Western Carolina University for the Hospitality & Tourism program. When we did presentations or dreamed up restaurants we had to do it as a group.

I thought it was funny that all of these young college students wanted me as part of their group because I was working in a restaurant! So I had real world insight! The goal was learning to work as teams because you are working more as teams than alone in the real world!

I sat outside the Portland IKEA last night, taking in every last word. The beautiful dialogue that occurred between Krista's inquiry and Seth's insights was truly enlightening. So much so that I burst through the DO NOT ENTER doors at (literally) the 11th hour.

I've been a fan since I first heard OnBeing.
I've been an "applier of Wisdoms" since opening Seth's first real business books.
And I thought The Domino Project was an exceptional exploration in rapid content development.

But this?
This is both Krista and Seth at their best.
Bravo for continuing to raise the bar of insight, enlightenment and quality dialogue.

Seth shouldn't be upset about the lady saying that these people can't make art. Because the place to learn to make beautiful, functional art is at Haywood Community College a technical college with a production crafts program that shows artists how to make a living selling fine crafts!

Excellent interview! Thanks! Now, how do I find "what to do when it's your turn"? So far I can't find how/where to get a copy.

Mariah Helgeson's picture

Hi George,

You can find and "What to Do When It's Your Turn" at

Joy & Gratitude,


The other night I was driving to a gig. I turned on the radio and caught this interview. However, upon arriving I was half way in and made a point to catch the programs name and Seth's name before turning the radio off as I wanted to look it up on line to listen to the rest of it. Five hours later I get in my car to drive home and turn on the radio and the station is rebroadcasting the program. I happened to turn it on a minute before I had turned it off before. I was thrilled and yet immediately felt that I was "supposed" to listen to this show. It was very inspiring, so much so that I listened to the unedited version the next night when I went for a run. Seth was able to eloquently verbalize what I have been thinking. I have sense passed this along. Make a ripple. If everyone is going in one direction turn around and go in the opposite direction. Bravo. I will follow Seth and listen to your program.

Your interviews are great!!

This unedited interview actually brought tears to my eyes. Very moving and inspiring (did I really expect anything less from Seth Godin?). This makes me want to risk failing bigger, more often, and more publicly.

Krista and Seth, thank you for the gift. Thank you for your art and contribution!

Godin at one point was talking about how when we were younger and in school we were taught to brainstorm ideas and work as a group to think of ways to resolve the issues. He says that as we get older we start to fear these activities because we are scared to be wrong. I think a lot of this can be due to the pressures that we are under as we grow up to always have the correct answer without stumbling around at first. As kids, there is no pressure because you are learning and people will just think they don't know any better, at least they are trying.

Also he had mentioned how in highschool kids get docked points if they work together on an assignment. I feel he was a little misinformed or not entirely sure what he was talking about. I think he didn't really understand that the kids were probably cheating and just sharing answers instead of working through a problem together. When I was in highschool I really enjoyed working in groups because it gave me an outlet to throw ideas and make sure that it made sense to other people. Also a big bonus of working with others is that you get different viewpoints and can open your mind to different possibilities through others ideas.

Godin believes that in this ‘post-geography’ world, with our connection economy, technology is empowering the ‘bottom-up’ change where society evolves culturally on its own without a central leader forcing ideas and change and that the change itself is empowering technology. They feed off of each other. As a result of this change, Godin believes that every single person is an artist. Instead of like in the industrial era when one person had the creativity and designed something and told others what to do, now one person can have the creativity and ideas and create a product all on their own to send out to the world. Now success doesn’t come to drones who only do what they’re told: now to be successful, you have to make your own path and have faith that it will work.
At first I thought that this was a rather odd opinion to have, since many ideas and products depend on people following orders and providing the support work. Self-starters who create their own businesses around their own creations can have success with hard work and faith, but they too need people to help eventually. But the more that I thought about it, the more it made sense. Even now people in ‘drone’ jobs are being empowered to come up with new ideas, new ways of doing things, and acting on them. Employers often ask their employees for new practices that might save time and money, or recommend new pitches that might get clients. From the top levels down to the bottom, companies are encouraging individual creativity, and new products are released every day because of it.

This interview was the real gift for me in 2014. After a number of years of disappointing failures, to be reminded that someone I view as successful has had his share of failures, was a gem. Seth's perspective on failure buoyed my spirits. My favorite part: that no longer is success created or defined by one person directing 50 others to design something; rather, that one person working by themselves can make an idea or product in this world that has value. We no longer have to be the worker bees! Thank you Seth!!!!

great to ponder.

Seth talks about seeing the world as a place of abundance in this post-industrial age, instead of scarcity, as in the industrial age. As an economist, I could not disagree more. What changes from one age to the other is the type of scarcity: from material things', to immaterial things' (scarcity of connection, meaning, time).

We hope you can provide an additional link to LinkedIn, which can land on its group sites.

Thanks for your good work.