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Hey! I loved listening to the conversation! I was fascinated by the wit and intelligence of both and would follow - happily - each wherever they lead me - because of their faith in humanity. Thank you each for the enlightenment. But there's a 'fly in the ointment'. You can't have an 'inscrutable' god - one that you can live with because his ways are beyond our knowledge - and then drag a 'caring god' into the picture kicking and screaming and give that god credit for taking the cross at the last minute to make our suffering 'bearable'. I loved listening to Nadia Bolz-Weber's embrace of humanity and god, but 'bearable' is a nasty euphemism for abandonment. If it's a 'faith' thing, then fine. I guess you have to find a way to forgive the god you imagine. But don't tell me god is doing the innocent any kind of favor by making himself absent when they need him most. Or, what kind of god is it that manages to 'show up' only after the girls have had acid thrown in their eyes and are blinded for life? So maybe the ancient authors who depicted god as a 'cigar chomping' psychopathic sadist weren't all wrong, or, maybe we can't begin to know him after all. One or the other, but let's keep the depiction honest.