this show really struck me. I am in the process of learning more about these ideas.

My take-away from this interview was that it was just 'first world problems' & 'white people angst'. Go let yourself be bad at art class, admit that trying to be perfect tires you out and don't send your kid to 34 camps to prepare her for trying out for a sport. I'd suggest she change the name of her study from 'vulnerability' to 'guilt over not having real problems'.

Great show again Ms. Tippett. A wonderful pairing of intellect and compassion between you and Dr. Brown. The unedited interview mentions a possible followup publication of the questions that were received during the interview with answers. Where will this be posted?

I was searching searching through this segment for the magic word "humility" to appear. Did enjoy hearing this segment - it's the sound of a person of New Age sensibilities growing up, growing out of them? I'll reserve judgment. Now to read all these comments.

Really appreciate comments from Sara, Davina and others reminding us that this conversation could go much deeper. I was also bothered a bit by the very binary way that gender and sexuality were assumed in the interview and the lack of mention of diverse cultural viewpoints, even though I don't think that was their intention. I do think Dr. Brown is fairly honest about the fact that she is coming from a biased lens - she admits that she only studied women partly selfishly because that was her vantage point. I hope the discussion here helps her take what she has learned forward onto the next level. Although I am caucasian and certain aspects of this gave me that revelatory feeling some commenters have expressed, I also agree with Davina's point that some of it seemed extremely familiar, like "well...duh." Maybe because I married and then divorced a black immigrant from Africa and did what I could to open my mind to his perspective. Maybe because I have good friends who are homosexual. Maybe because I have worked with low-income families of all backgrounds struggling with chemical addiction. Maybe because I've listened to a lot of On Being conversations that I feel touched on some of the same points, albeit not quite as directly or "jarringly."

I really wonder if the research actually came primarily from white people's experiences, or whether it was a diverse collection but Dr. Brown was just so personally affected by the results she found in her own awakening experience that she didn't quite get to the next leap to look at whether cultural differences were relevant as well. When she was describing people who are more whole-hearted it actually made me imagine a middle-aged black woman, who has maybe had a lot of struggles in life (including the daily confrontation of residual racism that Davina describes so well) but also has a great family, has found her own path her definition of success, and lives her life in gratitude.

Anyway, thanks to others here who are more on top of things and eloquent than me, for helping me name what those red flags were I experienced during the interview. It is still a valuable lesson to share, for sure. We are all gradually waking up to a more clear and compassionate reality at different stages and speeds, but if we're going in the same direction it's a good sign, right?

Thank you for this conversation. Last time I heard this kind of "girl-friend" vibe between Krista and an interviewee was her talk with Terry T Williams. Thanks for the window-in.

I'm glad Brene is doing research on men. I facilitate a men's group who's members are EAGER to share themselves, how they feel & that its ok to show emotion. They always seem to be asking me if this is ok to do this, and I am constantly saying YES! We need to find more ways to help people tap into these vulerabilities so they can heal

What is the source of the "Alleluliah" sung during part of the Brené Brown interview? I would like to get a copy.
Thank you.

I have heard you plan to host a live chat w Brene Brown. Can you tell me the details or where I can find it on your site? Thank you LGarfinkel

I haven’t been following the On Being program very long, but almost every story I have heard has interested me greatly. I found myself particularly connected to this story about vulnerability. I find that I can relate greatly to the issue of distancing myself from vulnerability. It has always been my thing to go out and try to make everyone proud and achieve a 4.0 GPA while taking on the world by myself. I never ask for help and I consider B’s a failure. I would attribute this type of mentality by, as Brene says, being hardwired for struggle.
I think I have lived the past few years as if the only way to live life is to succeed in everything I do. To not do so would make me a disappointment to everyone around me, as to myself. In reality, I would probably only disappoint myself, but this is the mentality that I have. I think that if I had been told as a child that I don’t need to be perfect, my life goals would have been completely different. I would have focused on a plan to achieve things that make me happy rather than my only source of happiness being success. I think I will try to take Brene’s ideas to heart in my future, but how hard will it be to completely change directions? I think it might take my own nervous breakdown, but I think that the idea of letting vulnerability in, is one that is very important to fix our society and prevent the epidemic of “emotional numbing” that is clearly plaguing our culture today.

“The most beautiful things that I look back on in my life are coming out from underneath things that I didn’t know I could get out from underneath.” -Brene Brown

Identifying with the word shame. It is hard for most of us, but it really is the reality of life. In reality, so many people strive for perfection that it makes them feel like they are not good enough which is the definition of shame given by Brene Brown. The feeling of not being good enough often keeps me up at night but the opening statement (see above) to this broadcast really opened my eyes to some of the greatest things about me which are in fact my struggles an hardships. The things that I thought might keep me down, but never could. These moments of vulnerability did not make me weak, but stronger with each encounter. The times I have felt ashamed, and made it out of that, in turn make me proud. The beautiful part is that we make it out! How can we know what beauty is if we do not know what shame feels like? How can we be strong if we do not know what it is to be vulnerable?

To be truthful, the feelings of shame and vulnerability are present in just about everyone in our society. The question is why do we all hide it? Why are we ashamed of feeling shame or vulnerability? We fail to realize that everyone can relate, and sometimes, in the midst of repressing these feelings within ourselves, we forget that we can relate to others. I think it’s time to start being honest with ourselves and others because not one of us is perfect, and perfection is the only thing that deserves absolutely no shame. If we have nothing else in common, we can at least say that we share the characteristic of being imperfect and that at times we do feel shame or a sense of unworthiness because of it.

This was a wonderful interview. The truth of which Brene Brown speaksI have experienced.
I particularly appreciated the 'turn' she describes in her research when she opened horizons to men. Being a man myself, I know deeply what it feels like to carry shame as well as the release and freedom that come when I've had the courage to be vulnerable.
Brilliant stuff. This is a gift to humanity.

Krista, I just listened to your interview with Brene Brown on vulnerability. I've been a listener of On Being for years, but this particular show resonated with me. I've struggled my entire life with the need to be perfect, to do it all exactly right. I received straight A's in college, but didn't go to graduate school until my mid-forties because I was afraid of failing. A writer, I berate myself if I don't put pen to page or tap the keys every single day. I hesitate to call myself a writer unless I publish a piece of my work. I never made the connection, though, between my perfectionist tendencies and shame. But, after listening to Brene, and you, speak, I see it! The notion of merely "showing up," of embracing vulnerability as a positive experience, is like breathing eucalyptus - I can now breathe.

Like several have said, I never post in response to shows. But at 37:54, Brene says on parenting:

"Our job is during struggle to look at our kids and say: 'yeah, this is hard and this is tough and you're hurt, and I'm not gonna fix it, but you're not alone. And I wanna make sure you understand that this doesn't change the fact that you're worthy of love and belonging.'"

Wow. Don't know if she intended it that way, but just hear that as the job of our Eternal Parent. About as succinct a response to the question if theodicy as I have heard.